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Hypothesis regarding Trousers, or a game of Pantaloons.

 
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Hypothesis regarding Trousers, or a game of Pantaloons.  Reply with quote

Throughout the period 1800-1815 the Line Infantry wore white breeches with long white gaiters as their default wear. This was for parades, full dress, and for home service (with long black gaiters for fatigues and second dress).  As we know, the practice of wearing alternative legwear on foreign service developed gradually, until official trials in 1809 on the Walcheren expedition resulted in a recommendation to adopt short gaiters and grey trousers for foreign service. This was enshrined in regulation from 1812.

Instead of breeches, the 95rifle corps (essentially 95th and 5/60th) wore pantaloons with short gaiters (inside or outside...). Pantaloons being a sort of extended full length breeches, snug to the leg. There are references to trousers for the 95th too. Which leads me to speculate:

Did the 95th use a green trouser as a foreign service addition to pantaloons for home service in the same way as the line?

Lets discuss this here. Rules for discussion: Informed speculation is welcome, reference to images ditto, but most highly prized will be documentary evidence. There is a great deal already on this forum, just search for 'trowsers, trousers, or pantaloons'. I haven't begun by doing that, to encourage others to join in and search the forum.
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Steve 60th
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Came across this in WO7/32, P.168, which shows prices of clothing for the ECR based on 1800 Regs. The 5/60th paid 8 shillings per of light blue pantaloons, dated the same day:

WO7/32
P.168:
Quote:
"Clothing approved for the Rifle Corps commanded by Colonel Coote Mannigham:
Private Green Coat                             15
Whtie Waistcoat                                   3,3
Green Pantaloons                                7,9
Hat Cap                                              4,3
Shoes*                                             11
                                                    £2,1,3

Deduct so much
to be stopped from                           1,6
the soldier.
                                                  £1,19,9

* the colonel paying 4/9 per pair the soldier paying the difference of 9,5 which is paid to them in the price of gaiters as he wears them short instead of long and also sock instead of stocking."

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Steve 60th
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently came across this at TNA. It depicts the 5/60th being clothed in light blue pantaloons up until this point, and in future to be clothed in dark blue pantaloons.

Quote:
Wo7.33, P.438:

Sir,

I have the honor to acquaint you for the information of the General Officers comprising the Clothing Board, that His Royal Highness the Commander in Chief has been pleased to approve of the 5th Battn. 60th Regiment, being in future supplied with Dark Blue pantaloons instead of light blue, as heretofore.
I have the honor to be,

W. Wynyard.
Tho. Fauquier Esq."

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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, in your researches into 5/60th clothing, I would be especially interested in any references to trousers as well as to pantaloons. Establishing whether both were used, transition points, and for what purposes each was worn is of some interest. The same goes for any 95th bods starting out on the memoirs, or trawling this forum. Please note any reference to legwear, specifically for rifle corps (the 95th and 5/60th) so we can start compiling a file.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve 60th wrote:
Recently came across this at TNA. It depicts the 5/60th being clothed in light blue pantaloons up until this point, and in future to be clothed in dark blue pantaloons.

Quote:
Wo7.33, P.438:

Sir,

I have the honor to acquaint you for the information of the General Officers comprising the Clothing Board, that His Royal Highness the Commander in Chief has been pleased to approve of the 5th Battn. 60th Regiment, being in future supplied with Dark Blue pantaloons instead of light blue, as heretofore.
I have the honor to be,






W. Wynyard.
Tho. Fauquier Esq."



The date for this Steve?
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Jonathan Rogers (5/60th)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's dated Friday 16th April 1806.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets take a snapshot of the 95th in 1812, and see if that brings the question into sharper focus- pantaloons, or Trowsers, or both? I choose the 95th because the bulk of my information relates to them, rather than through any prejudice against the 5/60th.

We know a few things with some certainty.
In 1812, all infantry regiment were expected to have two pairs of grey regimental trousers, one pair issued them by the colonel, another as necessaries and a third pair of trousers supplied as necessaries, (almost always of linen and variously described as Russia, Russia Duck, duck, dimity or canvas).

Those regiments with a different species of clothing- highlanders, rifle corps etc, were to adhere to their own peculiar brand of clothing- ie pantaloons.

From memoir evidence we know that the 95th still carried white Trowsers on service in 1815, which accounts for their undress trousers, so if they had two pairs of green legwear, were one pair pantaloons and one pair trousers? The service legwear is described by Costello as trousers as early as 1809, and James' is still noting in 1811 that,  

"In the... 95th regiment of foot (or Rifle corps)...The men to be stopped the extraordinary charge of two shillings and three pence in consequence of receiving pantaloons instead of breeches."
Also to be found in early form at WO26/39. TNA.

There is evidence that a trouser had superseded the pantaloon from the Board of clothing office in 1814. A doc showing that in 1812 pattern articles lodged showed a distinct pattern of rifle trousers, as opposed to a standard infantry grey trouser:
WO7/54
Return of articles of Military Clothing and Equipment laying at this Office as Patterns. Clothing Board Office, 6th August 1814.

(only stuff applicable to rifles copied here)

Headings: Article, Tradesmens name furnished by, Date of it being furnished as a pattern, Price.

1 Privates' Coat, european war, 95th,    Pearse 1812
ditto sjts coat                               ditto.
1 Privates trousers for 95th regt,           Pearse 1812
ditto sjts                                        ditto
Privates foraging cap for the line,   Prater (?)/ Pmater (?)  1813
5 Privates greatcoats of the line, Pearse, 1812
5 Privates knapsacks,        Bearsly     1812

Any other references to trousers rather than pantaloons?
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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standing Orders, Shropshire Militia 1813:

"The men of rifle companies are to wear pantaloons on duty, and trowsers off duty."
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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Calculation for Rifle Suits of Clothing by the 2d R[oyal] Lancashire Militia”, undated, probably 1804, found among records of the Shropshire Militia. The Pearse notebook for the 2nd Lancashire states “Rifle [companies] as Rifle Brigade”. The “calculation” includes:

Serjeants Pantaloons        
1 1/8 Yds Green Cloth @ 12 “ 6
1/2 Yd Linen @ 1 4½        
6 Gaiter Buttons              
10 Waistband and Brace Buttons        
Silk, Thread &c        
Cutting and Tailors Wages        
                   

Private’s Pantaloons      
1 1/8 Yds Green Cloth @ 6 “ 6
1/4 Yd Linnen      
6 Gaiter Buttons                
10 Waistband and Brace Buttons      
Thread &c              
Cutting and Tailors Wages        
                     
Does the inclusion of "gaiter buttons" in the ingredients for pantaloons imply "trouser-gaiters" covering the foot?

Should have included this in my previous post from the Shropshire Militia Standing Orders 1813: "Rifle officers are allowed to wear overalls as a morning dress, but never on duty, or when the other officers wear white pantaloons."

From Raikes’ history of the 3rd West York Militia:

“1811. In Regimental Orders, dated the 6th of March, the officers of the Rifle company are directed always to wear pantaloons of patent stocking web of the same colour as their jackets, the other officers to wear Navy-blue pantaloons of the same material, or white cloth or cassamere; the mounted officers might wear blue should they prefer it.” This could imply that previously rifle officers had sometimes worn blue pantaloons?
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Steve 60th
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will have a dig around see what I can find for 5/60th. In the meantime here is a battalion order from Major Davy to Company Commanders, dated 1809:

Quote:
"On halting days the officers commanding companies will inspect their men at eleven o'clock roll call, and they will pay particular attention to the state of the arms, ammunition, and accoutrements. The blue pantaloons which have been torn upon the march are immediately to be repaired, and those men who are under the absolute necessity of wearing their white drawers must appear with them well washed and cleaned. the stocks are to be worn, and the rosettes and bugles which have been torn out of the caps are to be replaced".


a footnote reads:

"In another place necessity forces him to authorise the men cutting away the skirts to patch the upper part of their jackets."

Sourced from 'Swift & bold' by Gibbes Riguad.


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