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British Napoleonic Bugle calls
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Waterloo Bugle  Reply with quote

Eamonn wrote:
Speaking of original bugles being played, does anyone know about this Waterloo bugle?

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/gall.../events/544342675?asset=467330370

Interesting that the bugle is double-looped. This has made me skeptical, but then again I'd certainly expect that the organizers of the event would have done their homework.

Which museum, or regiment, owns this bugle?

The caption further claims that the instrument was "recovered from the battlefield alongside a Drummer and his book of bugle calls". Does anyone know if the book of bugle calls has survived also?



This is an interesting claim which I must try to follow up.  I would be surprised that a drummer had musical notation for Bugle calls traditionally the calls were learnt by ear under the training of a Drum or Bugle Major. Be great it there is such a book !

 A double coil/ loop Bugle was invented by a Capt. Ridge in 1811 and approved for Army use in 1812 - see the 'Halbmond' topic. It was very much up to Colonels whether they bought them for their regiments - I don't think they were Ordnance issue.
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Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Eamonn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Waterloo Bugle Reply with quote

Yes – if this all checks out, it could be an absolutely amazing discovery.

I remember the Ridge bugle topic, thanks Eddie – but this still looked suspect to me...why haven't we heard about this example before?

Anyway, please keep us in the loop if you find out more.
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Eamonn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: 7/60th Buglers Reply with quote

The October 1816 confidential report for the 7/60th notes that the battalion's buglers are "well instructed, but this corps adopts too many duty sounds consistent with that simplicity which alone can render a bugle signal distinct."
WO 27/139

Thought this might be of interest, considering the previous discussion on this thread about the number of bugle calls used in practice.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: 7/60th Buglers Reply with quote

Eamonn wrote:
The October 1816 confidential report for the 7/60th notes that the battalion's buglers are "well instructed, but this corps adopts too many duty sounds consistent with that simplicity which alone can render a bugle signal distinct."
WO 27/139

Thought this might be of interest, considering the previous discussion on this thread about the number of bugle calls used in practice.


Great quote Eamonn - but should it not read 'inconsistent with that simplicty' - which would make sense.   The Bugle sounds noted in 1830s LI manuals are back to fewer calls than the Potter's Bugle Horn Major's companion detailed - simplicity being the key - in an excellent CD 'Sound the Alert' ( A day in the life of Royal Marines barracks Eastney in the 1950s) the introduction states -

'Bugle calls were once a regular and very important part of the daily routine of the Armed forces ..................all had to be learnt, memorised and understood - and they had to be played with  accuracy, clarity and rapier like precision'



Do - or do not - there is no try
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the matter of simplicity I list here the calls I regularly sound  -

In camp :

Reveille

Meal call

Preparative for Parade

Assembly followed by Form Company or Form Section


On the field :

March/advance

Halt

Retire

Fire

Cease Fire

Extend  

Close

Assembly

Double Quick


I try to resist doing more  - but to entertain the audience I may sound ' Detach skirmishers'   and 'Forward' before we move off.

It is gratifying that the many of the lads now recognise some of the calls - and I only sound stuff that is relevant - and in camp it actually helps with the time keeping as of course most do not carry a watch.  I like to think that even in re enactment I have a duty to do - though it irritates heavy infantry at times who may think I am just making a noise or showing off - tough - ' camping near a Rifle unit may seriously damage you health' - or rather hearing !
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Eamonn
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddie,

It's definitely "consistent" – see attached photographs.
I think the passage should be read with an implied 'to be'..."too many duty sounds [to be] consistent with that simplicity...". Just the case of an overly efficient inspecting officer.

Out of curiosity, which bugle manual do you use as your principal source for the calls, though I know there's overlap...Hyde, Cooper, Potter?
I'm not a bugler myself but have a few friends who are.



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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eamonn - ah yes I can see what you mean about the to be consistent.

I use principally Potter - which is of course for most calls itself derived from De Rottenburg, Cooper and Campbell. Bearing in mind that the in the early days Halbmonds were used- with a different notation range ,and that then C bugles were used, not like my more modern Bb Clairon , I have found it necessary in places to bump up a low C to a G to give the call the insistency it require to sound succinct - an example is Retire which is just too low on C s. Hope that makes sense. I go for the version that sounds and works best.
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Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this on youtube and it deserves a place here - a very competent young Bugler here playing from memory and on request a wide variety of Field and Camp calls as a Bugler of the period would have been expected to deliver -'at the drop of a hat' and perhaps under fire.
Some calls are played faster than I would expect and there are slight variations in note length to the versions I have played but that could simply be  'my bad' or a different manual.
This is a very impressive performance and shows that in re enacting as a period bugler or drummer it is equally important to fulfil the role properly - not just kids dressed up as such but haven't the slightest idea - just because Dad has brought them along to camp and they are not old enough to carry a musket!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIn-fvoCCCU
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"Far the calling bugles hollo,
High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree Eddie. It is a polished performance from the lad. But as you said earlier in the thread, buglers would normally learn, not from the score, but by example, so almost every unit, even today, has tempo and note value variations from other units in their calls, so not 'your bad'.

Elsewhere you showed the period Second/Last Post score, noting that the notes are identical today, but the time signature different. When I saw that back in the summer I looked up the 1966 version and yup, you were dead right. That was a bit of a surprise, so I then listened to a number of examples and nearly half had the first four notes as two identical pairs with the 'echo' of those four notes, a bar or so from the end, the same. As you will know, she ain't written that way, but note 3 is a quaver, half the value of note 1. Likewise at the end both Cs should be quavers, but are regularly not played that way.

Regards,

Mick
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mick
Nice to have someone on board who has a detailed interest in this subject ! I guess like a lot of Buglers, I played mostly by ear without really studying the music and note value - just copying the style of other Buglers. I think most buglers when they perform solo, pieces like Last Post, put there own 'signature' on it by lengthening or shortening notes here and there, a bit of vibrato perhaps  and putting in some 'feeling' with variation in volume. I think that's fine within reasonable bounds - and I guess Buglers have always done that from day one!


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"Far the calling bugles hollo,
High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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