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In search of the "Belgic"
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Richard Warren
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Joined: 26 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Must be Arthur Hebden of Bretts, Judiest & Hebden (sometimes written Hibden), or plain Hebden & Co, army clothiers and suppliers, Parliament Street (or sometimes Parliament Square), London. Don't know much about the firm, but you come across the name in connection with contracts for clothing, accoutrements, knapsacks etc. Don't know if they did bespoke stuff for officers.

But, interestingly, it appears that "Mr Hebden the army clothier" was implicated in the massive and complicated scandal involving the Duke of York, his ex-mistress Mrs Clarke, corruption in the army, etc etc; Hebden was alleged to have received part of a 1000 pay off in connection with the paymastership of a battalion of the King's German Legion, and admitted to selling other commissions.

Not sure how he came to be in a position to do this, and I can't offhand find anything confirming that he was clothier to the KGL, but it seems a good bet.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard  - thanks - in an  earlier post Rob McNamara put up this link to the interior of the cap with the KGL white cords:

http://postimg.org/image/v88s7l5v7/
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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I forgot the earlier post. Eddie, I think that's a match - the label has to read "Hebdin & Co /Parliament Street", surely?
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard I reckon you could be right. The KGL were inquiring a while back about the maker - I will let them know.
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Neibelungen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off Topic a bit,

Was doing a general  search  about  Hebdin & co  and  pulled up  an interesting document that might have  odd fascinating snippets of info.

Not a source I've looked at before but has  amusing things like:

4th May  1809.  Paid  Messrs Hebdin & Co for water decks supplied to  the 12th Regt Dragoons  417 19 -

Or
July 6th   To T A Collins Esq Commissary General,  to be paid  over to  Messrs Pierce and Mr W Gilpin,  for 10,000 suits  of regimental  clothing provided and delivered to  the Storekeeper General for the  use  of the Army.

Journal of the House  of Commons  Vol 64  1809 p472

https://books.google.co.uk/books?...p;q=Hebdin%20%26%20Co&f=false

Might be  interesting to  see  what else  is  supplied  say from  1811 to  1815  and who  by etc.
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Neibelungen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting

O/R's 1806 cap (stovepipe) in the Herefordshire Museum Collection attributed to  Hebdin & Co

http://news.herefordshire.gov.uk/...ecatalogue/ItemDetail.aspx?ID=708
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff! Its nice when things slot into place. Never seen that Stovepipe before - would be better if there were views underneath though.
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Gregger
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guy are good! Any guidance on how that cockade is attached?
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have we seen this one?






Sales bumf

Completely Genuine Napoleonic era Belgic Shako to the 43rd Regiment of Foot
This item comes with good provenance.

It was purchased in 1992 from the Roy Maitland Collection which came up for sale after his death.
He owned the shop in Piccadilly named Tradition. The hat was purchased from his personal collection with other items.
It is in fine condition with the peak of the cap being the only part that shows some sign of wear as it is slightly buckled. The label inside the hat states "Hawkes, Moseley & Co - Cap Makers to their Majesties His Royal Highness, The Prince of Wales & Royal Family - Helmet & Accoutment makers, Hatters, 22 Piccadilly, London, 12 Grafton Street, Dublin"
The original button, rosette and braid are attached
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Neibelungen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well  the  only genuine thing  on that one  is the button. And i'm pretty certain that's a Victorian one.
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I have learnt from the photos of the first of the Celle caps shown earlier in this thread is the spacing of the stitching attaching the peak. You can clearly see the raised 'tunnels' in the photos. In my reconstructions I was having problems with getting a smooth and unwrinkled sweatband. The Celle cap has stitch spacing around twice what I have been using. So today I tried a wider spacing on a stovepipe cap et voila - no wrinkles!:-) . You live and learn, I just wish I had learned this a couple of dozen caps ago. Quicker, easier and a better result.
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Gregger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Althea Mackenzie of the Hereforshire museum, here is the inside of that 1806 shako.
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Gregger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe it or not, they have a second 1806-12 shako. Here is its label, a slight variation.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been looking at a photocopy I took at the National Archives.

Its the original manuscript Horseguards  Circular letter of 18th March 1812 which introduced the new cap. In the margin of such letters is the distribution list of units to which it applies.  It merely states Regiments of Infantry and Militia.  Once again there is nothing to suggest an exemption for Light Infantry and Rifles.
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Gay the files of scarlet follow:
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



New image to me Dutch artist Langendijk - from a series dated 1812 - 1816.  Courtesy of Marc Schaftenaar.

At first glance the cap looks like a Stovepipe by the placing of the plume and the lack of cords - but it clearly has a raised false front.

Perhaps some Light Infantry may have put the plume and cockade centrally up on  the front and not bothered with cords - thus giving rise to the interpretation that they retained the Stove pipe??    


As an aside  -does anyone know  what is the oldest assertion in print( or otherwise)  that the Light Infantry and Rifles did NOT adopt the new cap?



I can only find the claim by C P Lawson in his History of the British Army vol 5 - first published  1967  - as Ben I think has mentioned before.
  JASHR  - Vol XV no 60 Winter 1936 carried an article on 'The British Infantry Shako' by Alex CATLEY - which made no mention of such an exclusion for LI and Rifles.


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"Far the calling bugles hollo,
High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
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