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Forage Caps
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Great image Eamonn not seen it before. Period depictions of undress are always valuable.
Certainly looks like the bluish/grey caps with the white band which appear in some occupation prints.
The white banding looks fuzzy and perhaps indicate a knitted construction.
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting little caps in this print. Note also the soldiers playing some sort of pitch and toss game.https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:228617/
S.K. Brown Military Collection

Martinet, Pierre, born 1781 (artist)
Jazet, Jean-Pierre-Marie, 1788-1871 (engraver)
Date; 1815
Col. aquatint by Jazet after Martinet; soldiers relaxing around tents in park,
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Obadiah
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes a interesting images of camp life. I think we have this image already somewhere in the depths of the forum.

The foraging caps fit perfectly with a description that Sean had for an order of foraging caps where it states 800 of blue/grey caps with a white band, 150 blue/grey with a red band and 150 green caps with a black band, or something like that. Only problem is this order was 1816 so we don't know if these standard style forge caps were issued pre-1816. But to me this image is probably pre-1816 so it could mean we may need new foraging caps. LOL.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its an occupation print, so by definition, 1815-19. The problem with trying to track the changes in forage cap for infantry OR lie in its non-regulation at army level as far as pattern is regarded prior to 1813. In 1813 there is a requirement for the infantry to adopt a new pattern forage cap, first posited in black and then in gray. The extent to which this was adopted is unclear, but the occupation prints suggest adherence was partial.

Prior to 1813 the cap is the responsibility of each colonel who can purchase as a necessary where and how he sees fit. In some cases, necessary purchase devolves to company level, becoming the responsibility, and possibly choice of a captain. So its quite possible that some companies had their own particular caps. The 1/95th laid out the form of their cap to some extent in standing orders, and these are still the best source of information for a particular unit along with well dated images.
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
its quite possible that some companies had their own particular caps.


Mercer's RHA troop being a case in point.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NAM has had one of its periodic updates of digital cataloguing, and this came up,

http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-colle...14&page=6&acc=1970-05-8-2

New to us I think?


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havercakelad
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
The NAM has had one of its periodic updates of digital cataloguing, and this came up,

http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-colle...14&page=6&acc=1970-05-8-2

New to us I think?


Wonder if the 'leather night cap mentioned by Lieut Leslie of the 29th resembled this?
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Paul Durrant
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fyi;

p.46 of Don Troiani's Soldiers in America 1754-1865, Pics by Don Troiani, text by Earl J. Coates and James L Kochan. Stackpole Books, 1998


From our archive;
Quoted as Light infantry headdress c1791-1800 (source unknown)
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

   

Picture and detail from 'A Bivouac of British Infantry in the Netherlands ' by Jan A Langendijk.   Nice views of Foraging caps, greatcoats etc. Superb.

He drew a series of such pictures 1812 -16.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful. Theres a sjt centre with a light infantry bugle on his cap front? And a tin canteen front right. Just wonderful.
Ola, you know the artist well. Comment?[/i]
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it just artistic licence that the cockade and tufts are placed at the top of the false front?
Or when the new caps arrived we may assume they were without cockades and perhaps the regiment just took them off their Stovepipes and put them on the new ones in the same place???  Certainly easier to attach a cockade there. Several soldiers in the picture have the tufts attached that way - and a few other top edges of caps  seem to have a blip which is may be just the cockade minus tuft.

Interesting to ponder - and perhaps the new plates arrived separately?
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Paul Durrant
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really sweet - grey forage caps as well!

Nice find Eddie.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its one of a number of images where the cockade or plume is placed confusingly for us. Either there were a variety of ways of doing this that we are unaware of, or the artist was uncertain of the placement (perhaps he had sketched different models of caps) and homogenises the elements of various preparatory sketches together. Lots of the elements in the image give the impression of direct observation, so I don't know which of these is applicable here. Probably both. I think of the costumes estrangeres series where almost every Belgic has a fold up peak, despite the variety of units and situations covered...
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have an image in the data banks of a camp scene from NYPL, and I notice ASK Brown have the full image. It shows multiple examples of the same forage cap ( not the wedge).  This is really the ugliest cap I've seen by some way, its essentially a bag with a brim.



Seeing the whole print, with its rather random colouring makes me question the previous attribution of the green or blue figure far left to a rifle corps. I think the colorist is just pissed.
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OJM
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
Ola, you know the artist well. Comment?[/i]


I still have quite a bit to learn about him, but there are few things to be wary of. His overall style and proportions seem more than a bit "flowing", everything's not quite right in a way.
You'd almost think he didn't really care about how anything really looked, his style and lines being more important.

His sources seem to be a mix of hearsay/explanation, other artists images,known contemporary print series, and hopefully his own observations, but how much of the last is a bit unclear to me.

His Danish and Swedish motifs are total fairytales, and I'm more than a bit suspect of some of his others....


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