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Forage Caps
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote



John - it looks like the cap peak is made from the same cloth as the cap.
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havercakelad
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Date given as 1820 for this west Yorks Yeomanry picture. Though the forage cap matches the one recorded as issued to the West Riding Yeomanry in 1811.  [/list][/code][/quote]
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a cracking picture.
There are at least 3 different units there. I particularly like the two trumpeters - one in white with a bearskin and the other with white pelisse and carrying both trumpet and bugle.
The farrier in the foreground has a bearskin on the ground nearby which appears to have a horseshoe badge on the front which I presume denotes the farrier's rank.
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havercakelad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Examining it, it seems to represent the changes in the Northern Regiment of West Yorkshire Yeomanry uniform from 1803 through to 1820 (after being renamed as The Yorkshire Hussar regiment of Yeomanry cavalry in 1819). There are actually three trumpeters shown, one being obscured by a horse.

According to a small booklet on The Yorkshire Hussars by Barlow and Smith the 1811 forage caps are isted as 'Woollen Scotch Bonnets'. In the picture all of these appear to be worn as knitted, without pulling them into beret type angles.

The tarletons were regulation items until 1817, though trumpeters wore a tall bearskin cap up till this period, the farriers wearing bearskins for full dress. White canvass overalls replaced blue for undress duties in 1805, though these were replaced with grey overalls with double yellow stripes in 1814, and then Oxford grey overalls with a white stripe in 1817.
Some of the subjects are in the white stable jackets that were later replaced with red ones in 1817 and the barrel sash was issued to the men. By 1819 as the unit converted to hussars the trumpeters and musicians changed their white coats to red, likewise the blue farriers coats. Red pelisses for troopers were issued in 1820 which were converstions of old red stable jackets.the sky blue shako cover (red shako was used by trumpeters) dates from this period. The unit lost its yellow facings during this converstion.


Last edited by havercakelad on Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, what is the text for the cap issued in 1811 that matches this? Can you post please?
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havercakelad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
John, what is the text for the cap issued in 1811 that matches this? Can you post please?


I suspect the fuller discription is in the archives at the Castle Museum at York unless these have been moved.

Text of the booklet I have, presumably extracting information from a primary source, reads~  

'Forage caps (known as 'Woolen Scotch Bonnets')were issued to the men in 1811. These were muffin-shaped, blue with a white ball tuft and a white band'

The figure to the left is possibly in the 1803 watering cap that was a blue folding cap, piped white.
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone closely examined the 10th Lincolnshire forage cap in the NAM? What is the red 'piping' made of? Tape binding or raw-edge cloth sandwiched between the two halves? I'm tending towards the latter.

Also; how long is it? Details of the lining? What is the peak made from?
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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John and Ben, maybe I can help a little here? Brief yeomanry diversion ... Yes, it's the Northern Regiment of West Yorkshire Yeomanry, later Yorkshire Hussars, 1803 to 1820 left to right. Great painting, but I've never seen it on display at NAM, so have never checked the tiny details. Not quite sure of R J Smith's sources. He died not long ago, and his research folders came up on eBay. I could only afford one, and it wasn't the West Yorks, but there were images in the auction, including two modern watercolours with the forage cap figures, apparently derived from this painting. I can't see why they shouldn't be posted here.





The first image shows a white edging to the folding cap. Slight problem is that there were much later images by Michelangelo Hayes, based on the painting, and the risk is that Hayes, like other 19thc illustrators, may have embellished the details, and that Smith then used him as a source. I haven't seen all the Hayes images, so can't say for sure. I think Smith's text is an interpretation of the painting and of Hayes's images from it. The only printed source I know is Stooks Smith's unit history, which says nothing on forage caps till 1824 when blue peaked caps were issued.

On the other hand, here's a poor b&w image of the Northern W Yorks, again from the auction of Smith's folder, of a painting dated to c1810 showing a peaked dark blue cap in use - central figure holding horse. No idea where the original painting is.



To drag all this back to the point in question, I'm not sure how easily cavalry practice with forage caps translates to infantry?

Don't think York Castle has anything relating to this regiment, and certainly no such caps. All their military collection is online now, but not all with images, and sometimes with little information, though I'm hoping to help with that. Takes some trawling through ...
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also took a few of those Smith folders, Richard! Will look at what I have when I can access them next week. I know Chris Maine in the 'states took the 95th one, but he said there was nothing of interest. Anyway..

For me, the interest in cavalry forage caps stems from the use here of what seem to be knitted bonnets of the hummel bonnet type. Trying to pin down the date at which the infantry began to wear these is one of John's interests, and I have also become infected with curiosity. I thought I had an early depiction in a copy of a Raffet jeune copy of a Norblin occupation image, but it turned out to be post period. There is a wonderful 1820 image of soldiers playing football, showing a variety of cap shapes together. Its hard to get much earlier than that, so these are interesting.

John, here are some more pics. This is as close as I have been to this cap.




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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which reminds me - this is interesting.



From W Y Carman, 1957. Captioned as all infantry, "circa 1816". Proper football, in the good old days ... Mix of folding caps, two ties each end, and muffins, though these all seem to have a bulge at the lower edge, as if turned up below the coloured band. One cap, on the floor, lower centre below the guy about to hit the dust, definitely has a peak.
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Richard Warren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snap! Sorry, Ben, you're ahead of me. Well, if it's more like 1820, the football's post period, agreed.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the one I was thinking of! Also dated 1820 in other sources.

John, just saw that Paul Durrant has examined the NH cap, so will wait for him to post his pics. It looks like tape to me.


Heres another strange cap to chuck in the mix,


From, The Oxs and Bucks Light Infantry, Philip Booth, Leo Cooper, 1971, p.47

Of especial interest because Heaphy is known to have drawn from life in the Peninsula. One of very, very few who did so.
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John Waller
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
That's the one I was thinking of! Also dated 1820 in other sources.

John, just saw that Paul Durrant has examined the NH cap, so will wait for him to post his pics. It looks like tape to me.


Heres another strange cap to chuck in the mix,


From, The Oxs and Bucks Light Infantry, Philip Booth, Leo Cooper, 1971, p.47

Of especial interest because Heaphy is known to have drawn from life in the Peninsula. One of very, very few who did so.


Agree the NH cap looks like it has tape binding. The 10th cap? Not sure.
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad. I see they have posted some better pics of it on the NAM site. (pics attached, property of NAM)None of our lot have examined it to my knowledge.


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Eamonn
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:54 am    Post subject: Wheatley Diary forage cap Reply with quote

Has anyone seen this likeness from the Wheatley diary? It's by Edmund Wheatley of fellow 5th KGL officer Henry Llewellyn with a rather snarky accompanying description.
Llewellyn's forage cap looks very much like a "Hummel" felted cap. Admittedly, officers enjoyed more freedom in selecting their wardrobes, and he looks to be wearing civilian clothes, so this may be a personal item and not military issue. Nonetheless, I'm struck by the resemblance of this cap with the ones depicted in some of the occupation prints (see Eddie's post on page 1 of this topic) and the caps made by Iain Burns.


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