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British Napoleonic Bugle calls
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

khazzard2000 wrote:
Interesting stuff Eddie. But I think I may have lost you somewhere. Just to clarify, what are the correct calls for we riflemen to use for our flag raising and lowering ceremonies?


Hmmm - good question Kieran
I suppose we ought first to highlight that as Rifles we don't have Colours -so would we have had a camp Union Flag? -which in itself would necessitate a Flag pole to raise it up and down on. I guess to be accurate we possibly  would only have such things in a permanent camp, Barracks or a Fort.

Laying aside these points - a few Napoleonic British reenactor units do, as you know,  have a daily Flag ceremony marking the beginning and end of the day. The 44th in particular do it with some style. I rather like it.

Did they have such ceremonies in the British Army of the time? The 85th Light Infantry Standing Orders 1813 makes no mention of such in the daily routine -  though it does say that Retreat was to be sounded at sunset by the whole corps of Buglers - thats 22 of them  - quite a noise!

But to get back to your point - the calls most appropriate I would say are  "General Salute"  to raise it  and "Retreat" to lower it (Barracks version as opposed to  "Retreat" on the field). Even today aboard HM RN ships - as I understand it as a non-matelot - the ceremony of Colours utilises these two calls.

"Retreat"  was a ceremony in itself - as I expect you know - which in the early days would not have  included Bugles - and we could well expect the Union flag to be lowered at the same time - sunset.

Both the General Salute and Retreat calls which many serving and ex- servicemen are familiar with today  - are actually Victorian adaptions of Napoleonic Bugle calls and only appear in such form in manuals from 1860 onwards.

The General Salute of the period  (shown in the Potter extract above)  is a shorter call than the modern one though it starts the same.  "Salute for Guard" could also be a contender for flag raising.

The Retreat call played today - "Sunset" as it is called in the Navy  - though very nice  - is not the one shown as such in period manuals - though it is actually Napoleonic and was originally included in Hydes' Preceptor as an untitled duet for Bugles!

The proper Retreat call is shown in both Hyde  1798 and Cooper 1806 (see extract above) -  but it is a rather strange and discordant thing - though perhaps that just my poor attempt at playing it!

I bet you wish you hadn't asked...............
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Call to Arms! Reply with quote

Just looking through Mike Robinsons excellent book on Quatre Bras and came across this:

Brussells , Hotel de Flandre, early hours 16th June 1815 Charlotte Waldie:

"Scarcely had I laid my weary head on the pillow when the bugle's loud and commanding call sounded from the Place Royale " Is that the call to arms?" I exclaimed.................Hark! Again! It sounded through the silence of the night, and from every quarter of the town it was now repeated, at short and regular intervals. "It is the call to arms!" I exclaimed. Instantly the drums beat and the pibroch sounded.........."

What is puzzling me is just what the Buglers were playing - there is a Drum call "To Arms" but I am aware of no such named Bugle call in any period manual.

Kincaid : Tales from the Rifle Brigade Chapter XI  page 66  "when  the bugles sounded to arms"
also from same  - chapter XIX page  153  15th June 1815 Brussells  "The bugles sounded to arms about two hours later"

But then -  Simmons  - Brussells 15th June 1815 chapter 14 "At 11 o.clock pm when in bed, my servant came to rouse me, saying the assembly was sounding"

and also Leach  Chapter 21 Brussells 15th June 1815 " Soon after dark on the evening of the 15th, the drums beat to arms, and the bugle sounded to assemble the Division"

From this I am assuming that the call "Assembly" is also used as the call "To Arms".
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From "General Regulations and Orders for the Army 1811"



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Greg Renault
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years ago I surveyed a number of period sources, mostly regimental standing orders, for the procedure to form for parade.  As you'd expect, some provide more detail than others, but all comply with the basic format provided by the Regs posted above. (The SOs of the 1/60th Rifles, and James' Regimental Companion are more detailed)

At a camp call, sometimes identified as Assembly, companies are to fall in on their company parades or streets, where they are sized, numbered, and inspected.  The company is then marched to the regimental parade, either at a camp call or automatically once the inspection is concluded, to form battalion in open column.  I could find  no indication what this second camp call might be. (In the US system of the period, Assembly forms companies, To the Colors forms the battalion.]

It seems that "call to arms" refers to Assembly, as companies would form up under arms.  Further conjecture: some SOs state that when in the field, arms are to be piled in the place of assembly (company parade or street); in these situations, soldiers would be hastening to the arms piles to assemble--hence "to arms".
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Greg
I was unaware of the Standing Orders for the 60th - I have found a link to the 1829 version:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?i...cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Is this the source you refer to?

Some interesting bits there of the daily routine of a Rifle unit - including a nice breakdown of the Armourers charges for various Rifle repairs.

Looking at the parade section of the 60th SOs it looks to be that the first appropriate bugle call is "Assembly" followed by "Form Company".
I am rather pleased to say that this is actually the sequence of calls I use with 2/95 as there is no period call termed "Fall In".
If we are falling in just for drill I sound "Assembly" followed by "Drill". Obviously a reenactors day at an event is different from the actual Barrack routine of the time as we do not have several companies being individually inspected then falling in for a Battalion Parade -  but I like to at least sound calls contemporary to the period  Smilie_PDT .
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From "Ensign Bell in the Penninsular War"   Recollections of George Bell 34th foot - originally published as "Rough notes of an Old Soldier during fifty years service"  1867.

Page 96

"The bivouac was all in alarm, the drums beat to arms, bugles sounded the assembly, the men groped their way to their alarm posts"

Again this implies that "Assembly" equates to "To Arms" on the drum.
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Greg Renault
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this the source you refer to?


It is.  Upon further consideration, I think that the SOs of the 85th Light Infantry (1813) provide more detail.  The procedure to form for parade is found pp 59-61.  Essentially:

1.  Orderly bugler sounds Buglers call 3/4 hour before parade (set for 10 a.m. in the summer).  NCOs & musicians inspected by adjutant
2.  Two buglers sound "warning bugle for morning parade" 1/2 hour before parade.  NCOs inspect squads, which then form company, which is sized and inspected by the Captain.
3.  "At the punctual hour the parade bugles are to be sounded by the corps of buglers...."  Captains march their companies to the parade, form in column.

http://books.google.ca/books/abou...l?id=db9CAAAAYAAJ&redir_esc=y

From this, do you still surmise that the "warning bugle for morning parade" is Assembly, and the "parade bugle" call is Form Company?
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again Greg
There is a specific call in Cooper - see page 1 of this topic  and also in Potters Bugle horn majors companion "Preparative to parade" which survived into modern times ( 1966) unchanged but under the name "Warning for Parade" aka "Half hour warning" . I have little doubt that this is the "Warning bugle" referred to. It was known as the "Dressing bugle for parade " in 1860 and has been traditionally used to give a 30 mins warning to get the troops dressed and kitted up before falling in. (BTW That's how we currently use it in 2/95) The 85th SOs  use it as the call for the troops to fall in for section/squad inspections and afterwards form up as companies  - there is a specific call "Form company" which we may assume was used at that point.
The use and timing of "Assembly" seems to vary between the 85th SOs and the 1829 60th SOs  and the Rifles Green book merely mentions "The parade bugle".  I am guessing that regiments varied in minor ways as to what calls they employed and in what sequence. I would still opt for "Assembly"as the executive call to "Fall in" for the main parade.

As I said there is no actual call named "Fall in" during this period - though the notation for Drummers/Buglers call is exactly the same as the call which by 1860  became  the familiar "Fall in" call still used.

Confused ??  yes so am I - it often seems the more we know the less sense it all makes!
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie, one for you?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/...1535523702&pf_rd_i=1236492986
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From "Adventures with the Connaught Rangers 1809 -14" William Gratton.

[Page 65 .Fuentes D'Onoro     Gratton watches skirmishers attacked by French cavalry :

"The bugle sounded to close, but whether to the centre, right, or left ,I know not ; certain it is, however, that the men attempted to close to the right, when to the centre would have been more desirable, and before they could complete their movement  the French cavalry  were mixed with them..............We felt much for their situation, but could not afford them the least assistance, and we saw them rode down and cut to pieces without being able to rescue them, or even discharge one musket in their defence.  "

Directions to the centre or which flank are given by additional "G" s - but in the panic it obviously did not work that time. The fail safe is usually to all run to where the bugle is sounding - which should also be where the officer is.
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Obadiah
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch!
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

French accounts of the battle still assert that the light division was proper mauled at FdO. The casualty returns don't bear this out.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
French accounts of the battle still assert that the light division was proper mauled at FdO. The casualty returns don't bear this out.


Grattan states these were light troops in front of the 1st and 3rd division under the command of a Guards Colonel who was taken prisoner so I would think they were light companies - not the Light division.
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To hear the sound of a real period Bugle - used by Trumpeter Edwards to sound the charge for the Household Brigade at Waterloo:

http://web202.ssvc.com/news/articles/army/2202



And beautifully played - but BLOODY COMMENTATOR  - what is the point of having a feature on the sound of a period Bugle and then talking over the top of it ??
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Eamonn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:23 pm    Post subject: Waterloo Bugle Reply with quote

Speaking of original bugles being played, does anyone know about this Waterloo bugle?

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/gall.../events/544342675?asset=467330370

Interesting that the bugle is double-looped. This has made me skeptical, but then again I'd certainly expect that the organizers of the event would have done their homework.

Which museum, or regiment, owns this bugle?

The caption further claims that the instrument was "recovered from the battlefield alongside a Drummer and his book of bugle calls". Does anyone know if the book of bugle calls has survived also?

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