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Eddie

British Napoleonic Bugle calls

Ok Folks I'm putting this on as a reference source on the remote chance that someone in the world might be interested !!
The  basis of British Bugle call notation for this period are those in the De Rottenburg manual :






These calls show a strong Germanic influence as several are listed in the Prussian regulations of 1788.

Sir John Moore wrote on 4th September 1803 regarding Bugle calls:
"The sounds at present used by the 52nd and 95th are De Rottenburgs', which are sounds, I believe, most generally used by the Light companies of Regiments"  cited by  J  Fuller "Sir John Moores' system of training" London 1924 p79.


The manual by Cooper in 1806 " A practical guide for the Light Infantry officer" expands on the De Rottenburg calls and  l will attach the notation images if I can - but I keep getting "invalid file" when I try to do so !!)
Greg Renault

Cooper:







Eddie

Thanks Greg
Unfortunately those images don't expand and three are the same !
But hey its nice to know someone reads this stuff!
Eddie







These are from Neil  Campbell's "Instructions for Light Infantry and Riflemen" 1813 which states :

"It is very desirable that the same bugle sounds should be adopted by all corps.The 43rd,52nd and 95th,use those in the"Regulations for Riflemen"&c translated from the German,and those selected here are taken from that book with the addition of No8 and 9"

De Rottenburg shows only the basic "Field sounds" for the deployment of troops but Bugle calls also replaced the daily routine calls traditionally played on a drum in the Line. That these "Barrack sounds" punctuated the regimental day in camp and quarters is documented in the "Green book" and also in the "Standing Orders of the 85th Light Infantry" Egerton 1813.

So we have additional calls and hopefully I can try to attach the 1806 Cooper calls again :




Ah ha! success at last  ( but thanks anyway Greg!)

Next time I'll have a quick look at the absolute zenith of Napoleonic British Bugle calls -Drum Major Sam Potters' manual and then that should be enough reference material for even the most aspiring reenactor Bugler.
Ben Townsend

Hi Eddie,
I follow every post here, but sadly have been a bit short of time to contribute much more (well, its sad for me!)

Looking forward to seeing Sam Potter's manual. Is that the zenith though? Maybe until a copy of Kelley's buglehorn sounds of the 95th surfaces... Smilie_PDT
Greg Renault

I reposted the Cooper calls, and they should work now.
Eddie

Greg Renault wrote:
I reposted the Cooper calls, and they should work now.


Yes Greg - they do work - but now I can see them I can see that the music is incomplete - missing several bars - looks like half pages have been photocopied. I did manage to attach the full scores above.
Cheers
Eddie
Eddie

ben wrote:
Hi Eddie,
I follow every post here, but sadly have been a bit short of time to contribute much more (well, its sad for me!)

Looking forward to seeing Sam Potter's manual. Is that the zenith though? Maybe until a copy of Kelley's buglehorn sounds of the 95th surfaces... Smilie_PDT


Hello Ben! Where ya bin? Swanning around with the gentry?
"Kellys Bugle-Horn sounds as practised by the 95th Rifle Regiment - Egerton 1811??" says he in an awed whisper - I WISH!

aka  "The whole of the Bugle Horn; consisting of Field and Duty sounds with explanatory Notes; and a Selection of Marches" by John Kelly Bugle Major 7s 6d    - advert in  Edinburgh Review Oct 1804 - Jan 1805

I went to the British Library and now have 11 sources of British bugle calls for our period but they didn't have Kelly!

A nice bottle of Port and a beeg ceegar is offered to anyone who can find a copy of Kelly and post the calls here!
Ben Townsend

Eddie- I AM the gentry. They swan around with ME. Hadn't you noticed?
Pshaw.

Regarding Kelley, search yon archives for it. We have been snuffling around for a copy for years. I'm not even sure it was ever printed. The ads might just be teasers. I first came across it in the Egerton's catalogue compiled by Don Graves and it immediately joined the long list of lost 95th treats. It currently languishes inbetween the Durrant jacket and Norcott's blue book, successor to the Green Book.
Eddie

Ok then a bit more


Published 1817

When I said that Sam Potters' manual marked the zenith of British Napoleonic Bugle calls I could also have also said that it "went from the sublime to the ridiculous" as the saying goes.
Potter shows notation for 83 Field duty calls and 24 Camp and Barrack sounds - and no I am not going to show them all!!

Now I am a Bugle enthusiast - but even I can't see how anyone could learn and remember all those - certainly the men in the ranks could not -
and so it is apparent that many of the calls were meant for communication Bugler to Bugler - the CO s Bugler with the reserve to say -the Bugler with 'D' company commander far ahead on the skirmish line. There are - for example  - calls to describe the nature of the enemy force, in what numbers, in what formation  and what movements they were making - well great - one bum note or the wrong call played and or misheard  - and oops - sorry !!

I can't see that so complex a system could ever have worked and certainly by the 1830s the calls are reduced to the basics again.

Neil Campbells 1813 manual has this to say re the use of Bugles ;  p90

"Being intended,however, only as substitutes for the voice,when the latter cannot reach,they never ought to be resorted to excepting under such circumstances as they are liable to be misunderstood.
For this reason,and as the same sound upon a different key or in a different time,is apt to occasion mistakes,they ought to be as few and simple as possible and the buglers should be very perfect in these"

Obviously Drum Major Potter hadn't read that!

Here are a few from the book which could be useful :




Next time I will finish this topic off with a look at the beginning and end of the day - Reveille  - and 2nd Post - the latter better known today as "Last Post" - from Trumpet Major Hydes' Preceptor 1798.
Paul Durrant

Eddie wrote:
"... even I can't see how anyone could learn and remember all those - certainly the men in the ranks could not -
and so it is apparent that many of the calls were meant for communication Bugler to Bugler - the CO s Bugler with the reserve to say -the Bugler with 'D' company commander far ahead on the skirmish line. ..."


Hmm... you could be on to something there eddie. And calls in Campbell like No4 (Halt) combined with No19 (Close while advancing) is "Annuls previous Sound".

So what's "To Skirmish' about (No10)? If that was for a soldier, what would it be wanting him to do? Extend (No1)? Extend while advancing (No17)? Fire Advancing (No 15) or Fire Retreating (No16)?

The definition of the call is "To send out any portion to skirmish." (p94) but what happens to the calls for Extending, etc?
khazzard2000

I don't wish this to be negative but I think reading the title page of Potter's book might be a clue to his purpose. It says it contains the 'Regulation Signals, with Barrack, Field, and other useful sounds'. Meaning calls he thinks would be useful but not necessarily common practice. Like so many other men of the period he is advocating an improvement or change to current practice via the publication of a book with his new system. Similar of the likes of Angelo's bayonet fencing manual. I would be wary of Cooper for the very same reason.
Eddie

Thanks chaps
I think Kieran is right about Potter - that he is suggesting calls that may be useful but in fact may never have been adopted - and given the number of calls he seems to have "invented" I am not surprised!
(Potters' other manuals - on Fife and Drum - were officially adopted under a General Order Dec 1816 as the system of instruction approved by HRH and remained so for many years)
Many of the calls listed by Potter had appeared earlier in Coopers' work  -and we know that some of these calls were certainly used  -particularily "Barrack sounds"  - because they continue to appear subsequent volumes of official Army Bugle calls up to 1966 - with very little variation in notation.

Paul  -re the call "Skirmish" "To skirmish" - this call appears right back in the De Rottenburg version -  along with basic warning signals about the enemy.( The idea that Buglers are used as basic signallers is obvious - I seem to recall reading that Bugler Bill Green relishes a day off because he was not needed to "answer calls")

Potter names this call "Detach skirmishers" and is helpful here in giving explanatory notes :



Perhaps we may interpret this call as a signal from the Battalion CO  to those Company commanders who have  been previously warned off to provide the skirmishing parties to advance out from the main body?
Thus I don't see it as a call directed to the indivdual soldier. Once out in front at the required distance then the action calls to extend, advance and fire  etc would kick in?
Eddie

And as faint echoes of the "Last Post" have barley just finished sounding beside The Cenotaph it is appropriate that that I finish up with with that most famous of British Bugle calls  - and it sister "Reveille".

In 1798 Trumpet Major Hyde of the Westminster Light Horse Volunteers produced his "New  and Compleat Preceptor for the Trumpet and Bugle Horn" approved and ordered by HRH The Duke of York. On the cover is pictured a Halbmond Horn and two Trumpets ( See Topic "Halbmond")

The calls for the Cavalry in the Preceptor - Trumpet and Bugle -  show little change over the years into modern times - a minor adaption here and there.The few Bugle calls he shows for the Infantry however  "as used in the Foot Guards"  - show little or no resemblance to those in other Napoleonic period sources - from which are descended many of our modern calls.
I can only think that this is due to the publication of De Rottenburgs' manual - at much about the same time  -with its appendix of two plates of "Signals for the Bugle Horn" - in the fledgeling years of specialised British Light Infantry.

There is something of great import however in Hyde - in the Cavalry Bugle section - as both"Reveille" and "2nd Post" appear for what I reckon is the first time in a long history :






Both these calls survive today - it appears to me - unchanged in notation - though scored here in common time whereas they are now in 2/4. Good old Sam Potter includes both in the "Bugle Horn Majors' Companion"

"Reveille" - from the French "Reveiller"  to waken - according to the 85th LI Standing Orders (and I believe also the "Green Book") this call was to be  sounded by two Buglers "at the dawn of the day" . It is listed in daily routine before  the call "Rouse or Turn Out" at which point the men actually physically had to rise from their beds.
In modern times the "Rouse"  frequently is  dubbed "Reveille" - which it is not - even the commentor said this on the BBC Remembrance programme this year.( It should be noted also that this self same Reveille is the only such named listed in the 1966 Army Bugle calls manual and not the oft played shorter and more popular "Charley Charley"  Reveille which I find listed among Royal Marine  Naval calls. I better stop before I really go off on one!)

As for Hydes 2nd Post - its become our famous "Last Post" now and traditionally marked the end of the day not just for Funerals. Its shown above in two parts so it could be played as a Duet. Clever stuff.
It has also become the custom to play "Last Post" followed - after the silence by "Reveille" (in the guise of "Rouse" actually ) - I don't know when it that was adopted .

Confused ? Yes so am I  - have a nice day!

( OK - This topic can now sit and gather dust on the shelves at the back of the Forum - but one day - someone may find it useful !)
khazzard2000

Interesting stuff Eddie. But I think I may have lost you somewhere. Just to clarify, what are the correct calls for we riflemen to use for our flag raising and lowering ceremonies?
Eddie

khazzard2000 wrote:
Interesting stuff Eddie. But I think I may have lost you somewhere. Just to clarify, what are the correct calls for we riflemen to use for our flag raising and lowering ceremonies?


Hmmm - good question Kieran
I suppose we ought first to highlight that as Rifles we don't have Colours -so would we have had a camp Union Flag? -which in itself would necessitate a Flag pole to raise it up and down on. I guess to be accurate we possibly  would only have such things in a permanent camp, Barracks or a Fort.

Laying aside these points - a few Napoleonic British reenactor units do, as you know,  have a daily Flag ceremony marking the beginning and end of the day. The 44th in particular do it with some style. I rather like it.

Did they have such ceremonies in the British Army of the time? The 85th Light Infantry Standing Orders 1813 makes no mention of such in the daily routine -  though it does say that Retreat was to be sounded at sunset by the whole corps of Buglers - thats 22 of them  - quite a noise!

But to get back to your point - the calls most appropriate I would say are  "General Salute"  to raise it  and "Retreat" to lower it (Barracks version as opposed to  "Retreat" on the field). Even today aboard HM RN ships - as I understand it as a non-matelot - the ceremony of Colours utilises these two calls.

"Retreat"  was a ceremony in itself - as I expect you know - which in the early days would not have  included Bugles - and we could well expect the Union flag to be lowered at the same time - sunset.

Both the General Salute and Retreat calls which many serving and ex- servicemen are familiar with today  - are actually Victorian adaptions of Napoleonic Bugle calls and only appear in such form in manuals from 1860 onwards.

The General Salute of the period  (shown in the Potter extract above)  is a shorter call than the modern one though it starts the same.  "Salute for Guard" could also be a contender for flag raising.

The Retreat call played today - "Sunset" as it is called in the Navy  - though very nice  - is not the one shown as such in period manuals - though it is actually Napoleonic and was originally included in Hydes' Preceptor as an untitled duet for Bugles!

The proper Retreat call is shown in both Hyde  1798 and Cooper 1806 (see extract above) -  but it is a rather strange and discordant thing - though perhaps that just my poor attempt at playing it!

I bet you wish you hadn't asked...............
Eddie

Call to Arms!

Just looking through Mike Robinsons excellent book on Quatre Bras and came across this:

Brussells , Hotel de Flandre, early hours 16th June 1815 Charlotte Waldie:

"Scarcely had I laid my weary head on the pillow when the bugle's loud and commanding call sounded from the Place Royale " Is that the call to arms?" I exclaimed.................Hark! Again! It sounded through the silence of the night, and from every quarter of the town it was now repeated, at short and regular intervals. "It is the call to arms!" I exclaimed. Instantly the drums beat and the pibroch sounded.........."

What is puzzling me is just what the Buglers were playing - there is a Drum call "To Arms" but I am aware of no such named Bugle call in any period manual.

Kincaid : Tales from the Rifle Brigade Chapter XI  page 66  "when  the bugles sounded to arms"
also from same  - chapter XIX page  153  15th June 1815 Brussells  "The bugles sounded to arms about two hours later"

But then -  Simmons  - Brussells 15th June 1815 chapter 14 "At 11 o.clock pm when in bed, my servant came to rouse me, saying the assembly was sounding"

and also Leach  Chapter 21 Brussells 15th June 1815 " Soon after dark on the evening of the 15th, the drums beat to arms, and the bugle sounded to assemble the Division"

From this I am assuming that the call "Assembly" is also used as the call "To Arms".
Eddie

From "General Regulations and Orders for the Army 1811"


Greg Renault

A couple of years ago I surveyed a number of period sources, mostly regimental standing orders, for the procedure to form for parade.  As you'd expect, some provide more detail than others, but all comply with the basic format provided by the Regs posted above. (The SOs of the 1/60th Rifles, and James' Regimental Companion are more detailed)

At a camp call, sometimes identified as Assembly, companies are to fall in on their company parades or streets, where they are sized, numbered, and inspected.  The company is then marched to the regimental parade, either at a camp call or automatically once the inspection is concluded, to form battalion in open column.  I could find  no indication what this second camp call might be. (In the US system of the period, Assembly forms companies, To the Colors forms the battalion.]

It seems that "call to arms" refers to Assembly, as companies would form up under arms.  Further conjecture: some SOs state that when in the field, arms are to be piled in the place of assembly (company parade or street); in these situations, soldiers would be hastening to the arms piles to assemble--hence "to arms".
Eddie

Thank you Greg
I was unaware of the Standing Orders for the 60th - I have found a link to the 1829 version:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?i...cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Is this the source you refer to?

Some interesting bits there of the daily routine of a Rifle unit - including a nice breakdown of the Armourers charges for various Rifle repairs.

Looking at the parade section of the 60th SOs it looks to be that the first appropriate bugle call is "Assembly" followed by "Form Company".
I am rather pleased to say that this is actually the sequence of calls I use with 2/95 as there is no period call termed "Fall In".
If we are falling in just for drill I sound "Assembly" followed by "Drill". Obviously a reenactors day at an event is different from the actual Barrack routine of the time as we do not have several companies being individually inspected then falling in for a Battalion Parade -  but I like to at least sound calls contemporary to the period  Smilie_PDT .
Eddie

From "Ensign Bell in the Penninsular War"   Recollections of George Bell 34th foot - originally published as "Rough notes of an Old Soldier during fifty years service"  1867.

Page 96

"The bivouac was all in alarm, the drums beat to arms, bugles sounded the assembly, the men groped their way to their alarm posts"

Again this implies that "Assembly" equates to "To Arms" on the drum.
Greg Renault

Quote:
Is this the source you refer to?


It is.  Upon further consideration, I think that the SOs of the 85th Light Infantry (1813) provide more detail.  The procedure to form for parade is found pp 59-61.  Essentially:

1.  Orderly bugler sounds Buglers call 3/4 hour before parade (set for 10 a.m. in the summer).  NCOs & musicians inspected by adjutant
2.  Two buglers sound "warning bugle for morning parade" 1/2 hour before parade.  NCOs inspect squads, which then form company, which is sized and inspected by the Captain.
3.  "At the punctual hour the parade bugles are to be sounded by the corps of buglers...."  Captains march their companies to the parade, form in column.

http://books.google.ca/books/abou...l?id=db9CAAAAYAAJ&redir_esc=y

From this, do you still surmise that the "warning bugle for morning parade" is Assembly, and the "parade bugle" call is Form Company?
Eddie

Hello again Greg
There is a specific call in Cooper - see page 1 of this topic  and also in Potters Bugle horn majors companion "Preparative to parade" which survived into modern times ( 1966) unchanged but under the name "Warning for Parade" aka "Half hour warning" . I have little doubt that this is the "Warning bugle" referred to. It was known as the "Dressing bugle for parade " in 1860 and has been traditionally used to give a 30 mins warning to get the troops dressed and kitted up before falling in. (BTW That's how we currently use it in 2/95) The 85th SOs  use it as the call for the troops to fall in for section/squad inspections and afterwards form up as companies  - there is a specific call "Form company" which we may assume was used at that point.
The use and timing of "Assembly" seems to vary between the 85th SOs and the 1829 60th SOs  and the Rifles Green book merely mentions "The parade bugle".  I am guessing that regiments varied in minor ways as to what calls they employed and in what sequence. I would still opt for "Assembly"as the executive call to "Fall in" for the main parade.

As I said there is no actual call named "Fall in" during this period - though the notation for Drummers/Buglers call is exactly the same as the call which by 1860  became  the familiar "Fall in" call still used.

Confused ??  yes so am I - it often seems the more we know the less sense it all makes!
Ben Townsend

Eddie, one for you?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/...1535523702&pf_rd_i=1236492986
Eddie

From "Adventures with the Connaught Rangers 1809 -14" William Gratton.

[Page 65 .Fuentes D'Onoro     Gratton watches skirmishers attacked by French cavalry :

"The bugle sounded to close, but whether to the centre, right, or left ,I know not ; certain it is, however, that the men attempted to close to the right, when to the centre would have been more desirable, and before they could complete their movement  the French cavalry  were mixed with them..............We felt much for their situation, but could not afford them the least assistance, and we saw them rode down and cut to pieces without being able to rescue them, or even discharge one musket in their defence.  "

Directions to the centre or which flank are given by additional "G" s - but in the panic it obviously did not work that time. The fail safe is usually to all run to where the bugle is sounding - which should also be where the officer is.
Obadiah

Ouch!
Ben Townsend

French accounts of the battle still assert that the light division was proper mauled at FdO. The casualty returns don't bear this out.
Eddie

ben wrote:
French accounts of the battle still assert that the light division was proper mauled at FdO. The casualty returns don't bear this out.


Grattan states these were light troops in front of the 1st and 3rd division under the command of a Guards Colonel who was taken prisoner so I would think they were light companies - not the Light division.
Eddie

To hear the sound of a real period Bugle - used by Trumpeter Edwards to sound the charge for the Household Brigade at Waterloo:

http://web202.ssvc.com/news/articles/army/2202



And beautifully played - but BLOODY COMMENTATOR  - what is the point of having a feature on the sound of a period Bugle and then talking over the top of it ??
Eamonn

Waterloo Bugle

Speaking of original bugles being played, does anyone know about this Waterloo bugle?

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/gall.../events/544342675?asset=467330370

Interesting that the bugle is double-looped. This has made me skeptical, but then again I'd certainly expect that the organizers of the event would have done their homework.

Which museum, or regiment, owns this bugle?

The caption further claims that the instrument was "recovered from the battlefield alongside a Drummer and his book of bugle calls". Does anyone know if the book of bugle calls has survived also?
Eddie

Re: Waterloo Bugle

Eamonn wrote:
Speaking of original bugles being played, does anyone know about this Waterloo bugle?

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/gall.../events/544342675?asset=467330370

Interesting that the bugle is double-looped. This has made me skeptical, but then again I'd certainly expect that the organizers of the event would have done their homework.

Which museum, or regiment, owns this bugle?

The caption further claims that the instrument was "recovered from the battlefield alongside a Drummer and his book of bugle calls". Does anyone know if the book of bugle calls has survived also?



This is an interesting claim which I must try to follow up.  I would be surprised that a drummer had musical notation for Bugle calls traditionally the calls were learnt by ear under the training of a Drum or Bugle Major. Be great it there is such a book !

 A double coil/ loop Bugle was invented by a Capt. Ridge in 1811 and approved for Army use in 1812 - see the 'Halbmond' topic. It was very much up to Colonels whether they bought them for their regiments - I don't think they were Ordnance issue.
Eamonn

Re: Waterloo Bugle

Yes – if this all checks out, it could be an absolutely amazing discovery.

I remember the Ridge bugle topic, thanks Eddie – but this still looked suspect to me...why haven't we heard about this example before?

Anyway, please keep us in the loop if you find out more.
Eamonn

7/60th Buglers

The October 1816 confidential report for the 7/60th notes that the battalion's buglers are "well instructed, but this corps adopts too many duty sounds consistent with that simplicity which alone can render a bugle signal distinct."
WO 27/139

Thought this might be of interest, considering the previous discussion on this thread about the number of bugle calls used in practice.
Eddie

Re: 7/60th Buglers

Eamonn wrote:
The October 1816 confidential report for the 7/60th notes that the battalion's buglers are "well instructed, but this corps adopts too many duty sounds consistent with that simplicity which alone can render a bugle signal distinct."
WO 27/139

Thought this might be of interest, considering the previous discussion on this thread about the number of bugle calls used in practice.


Great quote Eamonn - but should it not read 'inconsistent with that simplicty' - which would make sense.   The Bugle sounds noted in 1830s LI manuals are back to fewer calls than the Potter's Bugle Horn Major's companion detailed - simplicity being the key - in an excellent CD 'Sound the Alert' ( A day in the life of Royal Marines barracks Eastney in the 1950s) the introduction states -

'Bugle calls were once a regular and very important part of the daily routine of the Armed forces ..................all had to be learnt, memorised and understood - and they had to be played with  accuracy, clarity and rapier like precision'



Do - or do not - there is no try
Eddie

On the matter of simplicity I list here the calls I regularly sound  -

In camp :

Reveille

Meal call

Preparative for Parade

Assembly followed by Form Company or Form Section


On the field :

March/advance

Halt

Retire

Fire

Cease Fire

Extend  

Close

Assembly

Double Quick


I try to resist doing more  - but to entertain the audience I may sound ' Detach skirmishers'   and 'Forward' before we move off.

It is gratifying that the many of the lads now recognise some of the calls - and I only sound stuff that is relevant - and in camp it actually helps with the time keeping as of course most do not carry a watch.  I like to think that even in re enactment I have a duty to do - though it irritates heavy infantry at times who may think I am just making a noise or showing off - tough - ' camping near a Rifle unit may seriously damage you health' - or rather hearing !
Eamonn

Hi Eddie,

It's definitely "consistent" – see attached photographs.
I think the passage should be read with an implied 'to be'..."too many duty sounds [to be] consistent with that simplicity...". Just the case of an overly efficient inspecting officer.

Out of curiosity, which bugle manual do you use as your principal source for the calls, though I know there's overlap...Hyde, Cooper, Potter?
I'm not a bugler myself but have a few friends who are.



Eddie

Eamonn - ah yes I can see what you mean about the to be consistent.

I use principally Potter - which is of course for most calls itself derived from De Rottenburg, Cooper and Campbell. Bearing in mind that the in the early days Halbmonds were used- with a different notation range ,and that then C bugles were used, not like my more modern Bb Clairon , I have found it necessary in places to bump up a low C to a G to give the call the insistency it require to sound succinct - an example is Retire which is just too low on C s. Hope that makes sense. I go for the version that sounds and works best.
Eddie

Found this on youtube and it deserves a place here - a very competent young Bugler here playing from memory and on request a wide variety of Field and Camp calls as a Bugler of the period would have been expected to deliver -'at the drop of a hat' and perhaps under fire.
Some calls are played faster than I would expect and there are slight variations in note length to the versions I have played but that could simply be  'my bad' or a different manual.
This is a very impressive performance and shows that in re enacting as a period bugler or drummer it is equally important to fulfil the role properly - not just kids dressed up as such but haven't the slightest idea - just because Dad has brought them along to camp and they are not old enough to carry a musket!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIn-fvoCCCU
Out-Pensioner

Totally agree Eddie. It is a polished performance from the lad. But as you said earlier in the thread, buglers would normally learn, not from the score, but by example, so almost every unit, even today, has tempo and note value variations from other units in their calls, so not 'your bad'.

Elsewhere you showed the period Second/Last Post score, noting that the notes are identical today, but the time signature different. When I saw that back in the summer I looked up the 1966 version and yup, you were dead right. That was a bit of a surprise, so I then listened to a number of examples and nearly half had the first four notes as two identical pairs with the 'echo' of those four notes, a bar or so from the end, the same. As you will know, she ain't written that way, but note 3 is a quaver, half the value of note 1. Likewise at the end both Cs should be quavers, but are regularly not played that way.

Regards,

Mick
Eddie

Thanks Mick
Nice to have someone on board who has a detailed interest in this subject ! I guess like a lot of Buglers, I played mostly by ear without really studying the music and note value - just copying the style of other Buglers. I think most buglers when they perform solo, pieces like Last Post, put there own 'signature' on it by lengthening or shortening notes here and there, a bit of vibrato perhaps  and putting in some 'feeling' with variation in volume. I think that's fine within reasonable bounds - and I guess Buglers have always done that from day one!

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