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JasonH

Another... Baker Rifle Inert Question (Quality and Imports)

Only starting a new one as all the ones ive seen on here are years old and laws change all too often. Plus it looks like so does the stock that companies hold.

I'm looking at getting an Inert - i do have a Sec2, but i want a wallhanger as well and dont want to pay silly money for one. 500 is fine for a wallhanger at the mo.

Ive heard good things about Armae ones on here, but not so much positive things about the baker from re-enactmentsupplies.
But - the re-enactmentsupplies post from years back suggests they were different rifles.
I spoke to them today and they say that their bakers are sourced from the same company that supplies Armae. Id rather buy from the uk if it were possible - so has anyone else found the same? Is the quality 'now' reasonably good with re-enactmentsupplies?

- Original Email reply
Thanks for your email. Our Baker Rifles is sourced from the same supplier Armae use, I believe, although made to a higher spec.

The lock is fully working and has a pre hardened frizzen. It's non firing, but can be proofed and drilled to fire powder if required.

The item is smooth bored to comply with UK firearms law. Currently it is available with the sword included in the price.

------------------------

Secondly, If Armae were better and importing was gonig to be my choice, i would probably get an import from militaryheritage instead. But this brings me to qeustion 2.
Can they be imported without putting them onto a licence (based on the fact they would be inert copies etc)
what are the laws there.
All the antique rifles i have imported are fine as they are pre 1895 or whatever the year is. These are new old guns. Not sure what the import rules are for those exactly.

Anyone have any clues on the above. Thoughts would be greatly recieved
Paul Durrant

Hi Jason,

Basically, you need to be careful when talking about 'inert'.

Some armourers, Derbyshire Arms for example, would (or certainly used to) take issue with Wallhangers/Inerts. To them, an inert was one that was made to not be a firer under any circumstances (barrel plugged, cut or whatever) much as they do with more modern firearms to make them 'inert'. Hence the reason DA sell their inerts for the same price as a live firer.

What Re-enactmentsupplies are describing is what we/others may refer to as a 'wallhanger'. It's one step away from a live firer (drill & proof).

Most of those commercial repro smoothbores we see for around the 500 mark will likely be Indian made, and, as Re-enactmentsupplies state, probably all from the same source - which begs me to questions what the "higher spec" is they claim...

Military Heritage are same - and you'll be stuck with an import tax and a long wait to boot!

The difference?
Re-enactmentsupplies - 545+p&p with sword
Armae: 499 (385) +p&p with sword (I believe P&P is reasonable.)

(With both, I doubt the frizzen is hardened).

Oh, and you don't need SGlicense for import. With Armae, European Union laws apply and you wont get stuffed with an import tax

Hope this is of use.
Paul Durrant

HANG ON A MINUTE!!!!

I've just looked closer at the photos on Reenactment Supplies and they are the 'cap' variety! Look closely at the them.

Would suggest you contact them again and ask if that is the case and if you had one converted, what would they do with the silly cap holder that protrudes from the barrel?
JasonH

Thanks for your reply.

At the mo i only want a 'wallhanger' although a decent looking one.
I will likely buy another at some point to fire, but at the mo this is purely something to fill in for the real thing. (i collect and restore antique military rifles from UK. late 1700s up to WW1, but i can't afford a real Baker for my wall... yet. One day maybe ^^

i also questioned their 'Higher Spec' but i would imagine just nonsense and a selling ploy.

Im more tempted on the ones over from the US at the mo.
Ive read that as its pre 1870 they arent defined as RIFs as far as importing purposes are concerned, so i assume either france are the US would be ok for importing.

If The US were to be an import issue... Armae it is.
Anyone on here have a comparison of the two? or thoughts on what they would get if they had a free choice of either.
JasonH

Paul Durrant wrote:
HANG ON A MINUTE!!!!

I've just looked closer at the photos on Reenactment Supplies and they are the 'cap' variety! Look closely at the them.

Would suggest you contact them again and ask if that is the case and if you had one converted, what would they do with the silly cap holder that protrudes from the barrel?


Not sure ive come across the 'cap variety' so not sure what im 'not seeing' ?
Happy to send them an email to ask any questions though, even it helps others in the future

EDIT

Ahhh i see it now. The 'pipe' above the frizzen. I shall enquire
Paul Durrant

These were 'pop' guns - not blackpowder. You put a small cartridge cap of sorts on and the pretend 'flint' struck the cap and 'pop'.

Horrid abominations!.
John Waller

I think the one pictured is designed to take  a 9mm blank not a cap. Still an abomination though.
Paul Durrant

The two main 'unauthentic' features of these Indian made repros are the lock and the stock.

They insist on using a 'round' carbine lock (only appeared on Bakers post 1820) instead of the 'flat' lock. Ideally the stock wood should be walnut but the Indians use something completely different - no idea what it is.

We have a couple of guys who went down the Armae route and I bought my first from the US.
JasonH

Thanks guys. Should the inmort rules be the same for US imports as well as EU? (as far as getting the gun through?)
not fussed about import fees. Just want the nicer looking rifle
JasonH

Also, in response to the Baker from Re-enactmentsuplies, the photo of the lock area with the 'blank firer' part is apparntly an old photo that will now be removed. They said that they are shooting worthy and just need proofing etc
Paul Durrant

All those smoothbore repros/wallhangers, whether from Discriminating General or  Armae, are ready to fire once the touch-hole is drilled, frizzen hardened and sent to armoury to be sent off and proofed (provided you have a SG licence.) All that will cost, of course.

All provided they have some in; the stuff from the States will probably take quite a while, you will have an import tax and if there is a problem, then you're stuffed. Armae will take a week or so and there is no import tax (thanks to us being in the EU!). And according to EU law, your rights are covered on damaged goods/returns/P&P costs, etc.

I believe one of our guys might be about to buy one from Armae. Let me bounce this to him and get him to fill us in. (I'm thinking of doing this also.)

BTW Jason, where are you based?
Paul Durrant

An Armae wallhanger.

JasonH

Ok thanks. All i really care about is a good looking rifle at the mo. I won't be putting it on my licence yet / if at all.
Re-enacting is something i want to do, but im not convinced what i want to do. (id also get a separate gun for re-enacting)
So many things to factor in.
I love the Baker - Who doesnt
But... I also love the traditional red British Uniform (so Bess rather than Baker)
Lastly there is location, not knowing where alot of standard member nights are based.
Im from Southampton
JasonH

ah only just seen the pic. they do look good. thanks
JasonH

15 week wait for armae
Paul Durrant

Bummer!
Probably had a run on them since Waterloo200!

They get them in in batches from India. That sounds like a waiting time to have them made and shipped from there.
JasonH

bummer indeed. not sure if to just try the americas or wait 3 months...
Ben Townsend

I think we once worked out that if you buy four, its cheaper to go to India and pick them up. You get a week's holiday too Smilie_PDT
JasonH

as much as i'd love a curry week, i think ill pass this time around ^^
Matelot81

When I first joined back in 2011 I bought the Armae with sword for about 400 nicker, then 70 for drill and proof and a bottle of plum brown for the barrel as they come shiny not brown,did me well for a few seasons and sold on and is still gonig well
Service was a lot shorter than the sixteen weeks quoted,must be getting popular
JasonH

Matelot81 wrote:
When I first joined back in 2011 I bought the Armae with sword for about 400 nicker, then 70 for drill and proof and a bottle of plum brown for the barrel as they come shiny not brown,did me well for a few seasons and sold on and is still gonig well
Service was a lot shorter than the sixteen weeks quoted,must be getting popular


what did you move onto?

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