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British Napoleonic Bugle calls
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: British Napoleonic Bugle calls  Reply with quote

Ok Folks I'm putting this on as a reference source on the remote chance that someone in the world might be interested !!
The  basis of British Bugle call notation for this period are those in the De Rottenburg manual :






These calls show a strong Germanic influence as several are listed in the Prussian regulations of 1788.

Sir John Moore wrote on 4th September 1803 regarding Bugle calls:
"The sounds at present used by the 52nd and 95th are De Rottenburgs', which are sounds, I believe, most generally used by the Light companies of Regiments"  cited by  J  Fuller "Sir John Moores' system of training" London 1924 p79.


The manual by Cooper in 1806 " A practical guide for the Light Infantry officer" expands on the De Rottenburg calls and  l will attach the notation images if I can - but I keep getting "invalid file" when I try to do so !!)
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Greg Renault
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooper:








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Last edited by Greg Renault on Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Greg
Unfortunately those images don't expand and three are the same !
But hey its nice to know someone reads this stuff!
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote







These are from Neil  Campbell's "Instructions for Light Infantry and Riflemen" 1813 which states :

"It is very desirable that the same bugle sounds should be adopted by all corps.The 43rd,52nd and 95th,use those in the"Regulations for Riflemen"&c translated from the German,and those selected here are taken from that book with the addition of No8 and 9"

De Rottenburg shows only the basic "Field sounds" for the deployment of troops but Bugle calls also replaced the daily routine calls traditionally played on a drum in the Line. That these "Barrack sounds" punctuated the regimental day in camp and quarters is documented in the "Green book" and also in the "Standing Orders of the 85th Light Infantry" Egerton 1813.

So we have additional calls and hopefully I can try to attach the 1806 Cooper calls again :




Ah ha! success at last  ( but thanks anyway Greg!)

Next time I'll have a quick look at the absolute zenith of Napoleonic British Bugle calls -Drum Major Sam Potters' manual and then that should be enough reference material for even the most aspiring reenactor Bugler.
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddie,
I follow every post here, but sadly have been a bit short of time to contribute much more (well, its sad for me!)

Looking forward to seeing Sam Potter's manual. Is that the zenith though? Maybe until a copy of Kelley's buglehorn sounds of the 95th surfaces... Smilie_PDT
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Greg Renault
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reposted the Cooper calls, and they should work now.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Renault wrote:
I reposted the Cooper calls, and they should work now.


Yes Greg - they do work - but now I can see them I can see that the music is incomplete - missing several bars - looks like half pages have been photocopied. I did manage to attach the full scores above.
Cheers
Eddie
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben wrote:
Hi Eddie,
I follow every post here, but sadly have been a bit short of time to contribute much more (well, its sad for me!)

Looking forward to seeing Sam Potter's manual. Is that the zenith though? Maybe until a copy of Kelley's buglehorn sounds of the 95th surfaces... Smilie_PDT


Hello Ben! Where ya bin? Swanning around with the gentry?
"Kellys Bugle-Horn sounds as practised by the 95th Rifle Regiment - Egerton 1811??" says he in an awed whisper - I WISH!

aka  "The whole of the Bugle Horn; consisting of Field and Duty sounds with explanatory Notes; and a Selection of Marches" by John Kelly Bugle Major 7s 6d    - advert in  Edinburgh Review Oct 1804 - Jan 1805

I went to the British Library and now have 11 sources of British bugle calls for our period but they didn't have Kelly!

A nice bottle of Port and a beeg ceegar is offered to anyone who can find a copy of Kelly and post the calls here!
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Ben Townsend
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie- I AM the gentry. They swan around with ME. Hadn't you noticed?
Pshaw.

Regarding Kelley, search yon archives for it. We have been snuffling around for a copy for years. I'm not even sure it was ever printed. The ads might just be teasers. I first came across it in the Egerton's catalogue compiled by Don Graves and it immediately joined the long list of lost 95th treats. It currently languishes inbetween the Durrant jacket and Norcott's blue book, successor to the Green Book.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok then a bit more


Published 1817

When I said that Sam Potters' manual marked the zenith of British Napoleonic Bugle calls I could also have also said that it "went from the sublime to the ridiculous" as the saying goes.
Potter shows notation for 83 Field duty calls and 24 Camp and Barrack sounds - and no I am not going to show them all!!

Now I am a Bugle enthusiast - but even I can't see how anyone could learn and remember all those - certainly the men in the ranks could not -
and so it is apparent that many of the calls were meant for communication Bugler to Bugler - the CO s Bugler with the reserve to say -the Bugler with 'D' company commander far ahead on the skirmish line. There are - for example  - calls to describe the nature of the enemy force, in what numbers, in what formation  and what movements they were making - well great - one bum note or the wrong call played and or misheard  - and oops - sorry !!

I can't see that so complex a system could ever have worked and certainly by the 1830s the calls are reduced to the basics again.

Neil Campbells 1813 manual has this to say re the use of Bugles ;  p90

"Being intended,however, only as substitutes for the voice,when the latter cannot reach,they never ought to be resorted to excepting under such circumstances as they are liable to be misunderstood.
For this reason,and as the same sound upon a different key or in a different time,is apt to occasion mistakes,they ought to be as few and simple as possible and the buglers should be very perfect in these"

Obviously Drum Major Potter hadn't read that!

Here are a few from the book which could be useful :




Next time I will finish this topic off with a look at the beginning and end of the day - Reveille  - and 2nd Post - the latter better known today as "Last Post" - from Trumpet Major Hydes' Preceptor 1798.
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High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Paul Durrant
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie wrote:
"... even I can't see how anyone could learn and remember all those - certainly the men in the ranks could not -
and so it is apparent that many of the calls were meant for communication Bugler to Bugler - the CO s Bugler with the reserve to say -the Bugler with 'D' company commander far ahead on the skirmish line. ..."


Hmm... you could be on to something there eddie. And calls in Campbell like No4 (Halt) combined with No19 (Close while advancing) is "Annuls previous Sound".

So what's "To Skirmish' about (No10)? If that was for a soldier, what would it be wanting him to do? Extend (No1)? Extend while advancing (No17)? Fire Advancing (No 15) or Fire Retreating (No16)?

The definition of the call is "To send out any portion to skirmish." (p94) but what happens to the calls for Extending, etc?
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khazzard2000
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't wish this to be negative but I think reading the title page of Potter's book might be a clue to his purpose. It says it contains the 'Regulation Signals, with Barrack, Field, and other useful sounds'. Meaning calls he thinks would be useful but not necessarily common practice. Like so many other men of the period he is advocating an improvement or change to current practice via the publication of a book with his new system. Similar of the likes of Angelo's bayonet fencing manual. I would be wary of Cooper for the very same reason.
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps
I think Kieran is right about Potter - that he is suggesting calls that may be useful but in fact may never have been adopted - and given the number of calls he seems to have "invented" I am not surprised!
(Potters' other manuals - on Fife and Drum - were officially adopted under a General Order Dec 1816 as the system of instruction approved by HRH and remained so for many years)
Many of the calls listed by Potter had appeared earlier in Coopers' work  -and we know that some of these calls were certainly used  -particularily "Barrack sounds"  - because they continue to appear subsequent volumes of official Army Bugle calls up to 1966 - with very little variation in notation.

Paul  -re the call "Skirmish" "To skirmish" - this call appears right back in the De Rottenburg version -  along with basic warning signals about the enemy.( The idea that Buglers are used as basic signallers is obvious - I seem to recall reading that Bugler Bill Green relishes a day off because he was not needed to "answer calls")

Potter names this call "Detach skirmishers" and is helpful here in giving explanatory notes :



Perhaps we may interpret this call as a signal from the Battalion CO  to those Company commanders who have  been previously warned off to provide the skirmishing parties to advance out from the main body?
Thus I don't see it as a call directed to the indivdual soldier. Once out in front at the required distance then the action calls to extend, advance and fire  etc would kick in?
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"Far the calling bugles hollo,
High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"
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Eddie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as faint echoes of the "Last Post" have barley just finished sounding beside The Cenotaph it is appropriate that that I finish up with with that most famous of British Bugle calls  - and it sister "Reveille".

In 1798 Trumpet Major Hyde of the Westminster Light Horse Volunteers produced his "New  and Compleat Preceptor for the Trumpet and Bugle Horn" approved and ordered by HRH The Duke of York. On the cover is pictured a Halbmond Horn and two Trumpets ( See Topic "Halbmond")

The calls for the Cavalry in the Preceptor - Trumpet and Bugle -  show little change over the years into modern times - a minor adaption here and there.The few Bugle calls he shows for the Infantry however  "as used in the Foot Guards"  - show little or no resemblance to those in other Napoleonic period sources - from which are descended many of our modern calls.
I can only think that this is due to the publication of De Rottenburgs' manual - at much about the same time  -with its appendix of two plates of "Signals for the Bugle Horn" - in the fledgeling years of specialised British Light Infantry.

There is something of great import however in Hyde - in the Cavalry Bugle section - as both"Reveille" and "2nd Post" appear for what I reckon is the first time in a long history :






Both these calls survive today - it appears to me - unchanged in notation - though scored here in common time whereas they are now in 2/4. Good old Sam Potter includes both in the "Bugle Horn Majors' Companion"

"Reveille" - from the French "Reveiller"  to waken - according to the 85th LI Standing Orders (and I believe also the "Green Book") this call was to be  sounded by two Buglers "at the dawn of the day" . It is listed in daily routine before  the call "Rouse or Turn Out" at which point the men actually physically had to rise from their beds.
In modern times the "Rouse"  frequently is  dubbed "Reveille" - which it is not - even the commentor said this on the BBC Remembrance programme this year.( It should be noted also that this self same Reveille is the only such named listed in the 1966 Army Bugle calls manual and not the oft played shorter and more popular "Charley Charley"  Reveille which I find listed among Royal Marine  Naval calls. I better stop before I really go off on one!)

As for Hydes 2nd Post - its become our famous "Last Post" now and traditionally marked the end of the day not just for Funerals. Its shown above in two parts so it could be played as a Duet. Clever stuff.
It has also become the custom to play "Last Post" followed - after the silence by "Reveille" (in the guise of "Rouse" actually ) - I don't know when it that was adopted .

Confused ? Yes so am I  - have a nice day!

( OK - This topic can now sit and gather dust on the shelves at the back of the Forum - but one day - someone may find it useful !)
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"Far the calling bugles hollo,
High the screaming Fife replies,
Gay the files of scarlet follow:
Woman bore me, I will rise"


Last edited by Eddie on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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khazzard2000
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff Eddie. But I think I may have lost you somewhere. Just to clarify, what are the correct calls for we riflemen to use for our flag raising and lowering ceremonies?


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